This is an interview with Roy Masters by David Kupelian on November 11, 1987 for the New Dimensions Magazine.
America IS being intentionally destroyed, says Roy Masters, and he’s not talking about Russians.
As an Englishman who loves America, the real America, Masters has for 27 years been warning Americans about the disintegration of their country on his syndicated radio program, “How Your Mind Can Keep You Well.” Here for the first time, he is laying out what he sees in store for this country in the years ahead.
The American system was founded on an idea so radical and seemingly beyond human nature that, technically speaking, America shouldn’t even exist. And the notion that human beings could govern their own lives responsibly, respecting the rights of others, without the need for a king or tyrant, but only for public servants, ran contrary to all other governments in the history of the human race. In just two short centuries, America has shamed the rest of the world with its mind-boggling success, freedom and wealth.
Today, eighty million people in America receive a government handout; almost half the people are dependent on the labors of the other half. What happened to individual responsibility? Has this country truly fallen into socialism, corruption, immorality, crime and violence, as has so often been said? Or has it been pushed? According to Roy Masters, Americans have not understood the nature of the people they have elected to lead them. Men who aspire to have power over others are a different breed, he says. And it is up to the good people of this country to recognize this difference if they wish to save their country.
MASTERS: There are people in this world who are plain wicked; they are the walking dead.
These people want you to be on welfare; they want you to mismanage your life. They promote promiscuity and human weakness. They promote the downfall of the human spirit and they pretend sympathy and love for it and then they rise to cure it with tax money.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Sounds like you’re talking about liberals.
MASTERS: The liberals in this country, the labor party in Britain—it’s the same mentality. The liberals mother the weakness of a certain segment of the population. They have no intent to make better human beings. Their intent is to breed more of them because then there’s a broader base for their election. Does that make sense to you?
NEW DIMENSIONS: Are you saying that with these people in power, it’s intentional, consciously or unconsciously, to do this, to create debilitated people?
MASTERS: Correct. You see, there are two types of people in the world. There are those who have a very strong moral sense of conscience of right and wrong and wish to adhere to it. When they are wrong, and when they make mistakes, they are able to correct them, or at least seek for answers in a rational way. But there are other people who don’t love what is right and are not aware of the fact that they are wrong. They don’t have a moral conscience like our types do. Their types typically argue against moral absolutes because when you can make everything shades of gray, then you can rationalize any way of life, especially the wrong way of life. There are two classes of human beings in the world, of every race, color and creed. It has nothing to do with race or color. I’m saying that those who come from the dark place seek to rule their brothers; and all the suffering, all the misery, all the tragedy, sickness, disease, war, horror, murder and insanity have come from these people who cannot see how mad they are.
NEW DIMENSIONS: But why is it that they are always the people in power?
MASTERS: Because ever since the fall of man, whenever people are traumatized, even good people, they become addicted to the power of the traumatizer. In other words, once you leave behind your innocence, there is a little piece of them in you that is subject to that which put it there.
NEW DIMENSIONS: So, just as an individual is subject to his traumatic conditioning, you’re saying the whole world is subject to its source of trauma in terms of political power, but what is it that these leader-types are getting out of leading everybody to be so corrupt?
MASTERS: Power. It’s the love of power. If you believe in good and evil, then obviously evil wants to dominate good, or destroy good, and be the god of those who are not good. You see, people have to understand something, and this is a very hard thing to grasp because we are talking about the evils of the world; the Nazis’ extermination of the Jews, the massacres of the Armenians, the things that went on with the Viet Cong, the massacres in Africa. We talk about what human beings do; how they chop off children’s heads and rip open pregnant mothers’ bellies and pull out the embryos. You wonder, “What is this?” You see, there are two forces that are opposed to one another. The Bible says there are two forces that wait upon a man; good and evil, and whatever enters is what we incline our heart to, and some people are permanently subject to that evil because whatever they have become as a result of that sin is who they are, and they cling to that which created them.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Are you saying that a person who becomes corrupted like that and they don’t change from that; that’s what they wanted to become?
MASTERS: Well, you increasingly defend the wrong that’s growing up in you, so it grows up more in you. If you’re incorrigibly prideful, that’s what happens. The trouble is, when your brother grows up to be not so prideful and has a different nature from you, coming from a different place.
NEW DIMENSIONS: It reminds you of the way you are.
MASTERS: Yes and the wicked don’t want to be reminded because it is like dying for them. So that creates the impulse to kill or to destroy that which tends to stand as a contrast. That’s why parents destroy their innocent children. They cannot stand the look of that child that reminds them of what they’ve lost and what they’ve become. This society has become increasingly intolerant of innocence.
Let me make a point: If you spoil a child and console him and don’t let him feel the pain of his mistakes, he will become dependent upon the person who provides that kind of answer. Never will he put roots down inside of himself. He can always reach outside to someone who will give him sympathy and take his pain away. As a result of that, instead of him becoming a better person, he starts to take on the direction of the person who set him up for this. So he becomes less and less able to fend for himself, more and more dependent, not only on the answers and excuses provided by his benefactor, but he also becomes dependent on welfare, someone helping him to exist. So he becomes totally dependent. Eventually, if we don’t cure the condition, the condition worsens because he produces more offspring who, as they grow up to become teenagers and adults, also produce offspring and are now stuck in a vicious cycle of welfare dependency. There are more and more of them and less and less of us.
NEW DIMENSIONS: And you’re saying this is by design? I can see that one thing it accomplishes is to create a power base, a voting bloc.
MASTERS: Right. It creates an electorate. Therefore, the communist-socialist type of mentality (who are the ones who want power) can only have power by creating dependent people; more and more of them. Because once they are created, they’re going to have their own representatives and that’s where the idea for big government spending comes from. Because those people who are now receiving some sort of government handout, are now becoming the majority. Pretty soon the Americans who work and have to support that will have to go out and have two jobs; mother and father both working, the taxes becoming higher and higher ….
NEW DIMENSIONS: You have that situation now.
MASTERS: But it will get to the point that, by political decree, they can’t even save for their own future, their own independence. Eventually, they will become wards of the state too. Pretty soon, everybody’s on welfare. Because the money you could have saved for your own future, you have to pay to some whore with twelve kids in the ghetto. The point is this: eventually, people like us are going to say, “Just a minute! That’s enough. Our own survival is at stake. We’re just not going to let that happen anymore.” And when we do that, there’s going to be a tax revolt. When the tax revolt comes, those people who have been on welfare? Their funds will be cut off.
NEW DIMENSIONS: They’ll go nuts.
MASTERS: They are violent enough anyway because of the humiliation of being on welfare. They need it, but then they feel humiliated by taking it. You see, once a person has been humiliated and dehumanized by welfare, he becomes addicted because he can’t fend for himself. But the average ego cannot stand the conflict of having an existence that is dependent on somebody else. It is humiliating to his ego. So what he does, because he can no longer take money that is handed down to him, he has to go out and steal and rob for it; that way he humiliates while he takes. These people are already becoming killers and the conflict of not being able to grow, and the conflict of being addicted to the violators who are pretending to love them and help them, and who pretend to have their welfare at heart, but are creating slaves, goes on and on. The conflict of growing up that way is so great, that many of them spend their welfare checks on dope, and when whose funds are cut off, those people are going to come streaming out of the inner cities into the countryside, pillaging and robbing and murdering. It’ll be them against us.
NEW DIMENSIONS: You’re saying that the productive people are going to stop paying taxes….
MASTERS: They’re going to say, “No more.” If I know Americans, they’re a lot different from Europeans. There’s a certain element in America that is different from their counterpart in Europe.
NEW DIMENSIONS: A little more gutsy do you think?
MASTERS: A little more gutsy.
NEW DIMENSIONS: This rebellion that you’re talking about; the form that it takes right now is the huge underground economy. It represents people refusing to pay taxes, because taxes aren’t fair and they’re pocketing it, or they’re not declaring it. Are you saying there’s going to be an open revolt, like the Boston Tea Party? Because remember most people are afraid of the government. The IRS is cracking down; they’re requiring that five-year-olds have a Social Security number now. People are very afraid of the IRS and they’re very afraid to come out and openly defy the government.
MASTERS: Oh yes, you’d get destroyed.
NEW DIMENSIONS: You get a few people like that Gordon Karl, who was a kind of religious nut patriot tax-protester type who shot a couple of federal agents and was shot himself in a big shoot-out. There’s a little of that. People openly rebelling against the government over taxes, but for the most part, it’s very little.
MASTERS: But the problem is that it’s going to come to a head because of the tremendous number of loathsome and low types of human beings we are creating. In other words, we are down-breeding this nation. We’re becoming like a third world nation because of the welfare thing. Where a woman can have ten children and not know who their father is, and not be responsible, and not be moral. Then you and me; we have to take care of whose kids who don’t have any hope for a future.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Let me give you an interesting comparison. In Sweden, they’re further along than we are down the socialistic road. They have cradle-to-grave security and their taxation rate is way above 50 percent, maybe 70 percent. The way it is now, you have a big suppression; they’ve all given in.
MASTERS: Sweden is not America. Americans, the real Americans, are the kind of people who originated the Boston Tea Party. They are the type of people who came over on the Mayflower and got away from the European dark ages.
NEW DIMENSIONS: That was then. Do you think we still have it in us now?
MASTERS: I think it’s in our genes. I think there are enough Americans over here that have that quality. There are still enough of us around who want to fight for this country.
NEW DIMENSIONS: So you’re saying we’re not going to just knuckle under and “join the system” like in Sweden?
MASTERS: It wouldn’t be America anymore! Sweden is a nothing power. What made America great? It’s that pioneering quality, the willingness to stand on your own two feet, to fend for yourself and be your own person.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Yes, but remember we’re talking about a country now that has really fallen and has millions of homosexuals and drug addicts….
MASTERS: But I say there are enough of us left, enough of the real American types left to make a difference.
NEW DIMENSIONS: What form you visualize such a rebellion of taxpayers could take?
MASTERS: It could be just people saying, “No more,” and sort of disappearing, like in the story, “Atlas Shrugged.”
NEW DIMENSIONS: Are you predicting a happy ending to the story here in America?
MASTERS: No, I think it’s going to be full of bloodshed and violence. The dehumanizing of people in this country because of the freedom here, because we are so radically different from the other countries of the world, we have fallen here so low and have produced such great masses of dehumanized beings, it’s going to be bloodshed. You see, there are going to be more and more people on welfare; and these people in the inner cities, they are very much dehumanized and very violent too, very hateful and cruel.
NEW DIMENSIONS: I think people can remember the Watts riot and other riots around that time, like the ones in Washington D.C., there were whole blocks that were totally burned out.
MASTERS: That’s right, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
NEW DIMENSIONS: When will it happen?
MASTERS: It will happen when the major [world] powers are balanced, meaning there are no more hostilities. As long as you can have a war, you can turn the hates and the frustrations of a people toward a common enemy. Everybody unifies together, so instead of fighting each other they turn their angers and rages toward an outside enemy. That’s what wars are for, basically. Because in every country since time began, the exploiters eventually made people’s lives miserable and just before the people would turn and rebel against their leaders, the leaders would have a convenient war and turn the energies against a common enemy and therefore survive exploiting a little longer.
We’ve had the longest period of peacetime we’ve ever had. We’ve had 40 years with no major, declared war. So I think it will happen when we’ve got a balance of power; when we’ve got peace agreements with Russia and China and everything looks rosy. And we have to do that, or we’re going to have an atomic war on our hands; our leaders are forced to do that, we have no choice. So at that time when everybody is saying, “Peace, peace,” that is when the whole country will collapse and the revolution in America and in other countries will happen.
NEW DIMENSIONS: How many years away do you see this coming about?
MASTERS: I don’t know, but I could guess. What I am talking about could be prevented, it could be reversed. If people would stand up now and say “No” to higher taxes, before there’s more of “them” than there are of “us.” If we could have a system where we hold people accountable and discourage welfare mothers, where we aren’t encouraging and condoning immorality… It’s got to be a hue and cry, but I’m afraid there are too many people now who have some sort of government paycheck.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Just between you and me, it seems unlikely.
MASTERS: To me it seems unlikely; I don’t think it will happen because there are already more of them than there are of us. So I don’t know when it’s going to happen, but my guess is before the year 2000.
NEW DIMENSIONS: That would you say people should do?
MASTERS: Listen; hole up in Southern Oregon (laughing). What do you think I’m up there for? It’s relatively unspoiled, there’s more of us gathered there, people who are running away from the big cities with the crime and corruption. People are willing to settle for lower salaries and have the simple life. There their children won’t get contaminated by the mores and morals of the inner cities. So those kinds of people are thinking people and they’re moving away regardless of the loss of economic income. They’re moving toward places like Grants Pass (Oregon).
NEW DIMENSIONS: I think that within a year or two it’s going to be like it was in the late 70’s with Carter. Once Reagan is out, it’s going to be “survival” days again.
MASTERS: Well, Reagan was a strong bulwark; he was a strong buffer between them and us. He knew how to deal with them. The trouble is the news media is on the side of them.
NEW DIMENSIONS: The Iran-Contra thing was as though a big dike of media hate burst through. The only reason the media held back all whose years was because Reagan was so popular; the media can only go so far because they’ll lose credibility if they defame a president that the people love.
MASTERS: Well, to me, that’s hopeful because of the fact that people see our kind in him; no matter what the media tried to do to degrade him, there seemed to be enough people who love goodness….
NEW DIMENSIONS: … that resonates to that decency. It was the same thing with Oliver North. They saw Ollie North and they loved him.
MASTERS: Yes, and they couldn’t degrade him either. They couldn’t say bad about him, it only made him look better. So to me that’s very heartening, but all I am doing is saying what’s in the hearts of millions of people, but you won’t see it in the newspapers because the newspapers are controlled by them.
NEW DIMENSIONS: Thanks, Roy.
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